Friday, March 2, 2012

Small VS Large Primers

Small & Large primers

Small primer VS large primer

Recently some companies started making cases with small pistol primers for the 45 ACP. Why? Who knows? Anyway it is something we have to deal with so I am doing testing on small VS larger through the chronograph. I have found that Federal and Fiocchi are using small primers in their ammo. It’s conclusive that large primers give more velocity with all powders tested especially the slower ones such as Herco. That is because the large primer has a stronger ignition on the powder charge. Felt recoil was different with some of the loads that read 100 FPS difference or so. You can also see that there is a difference between a 3” and 5” barrel and different guns with the same barrel length. It goes to show you that any change in components will change the end results. If you are using a max load and change any component you should drop down about 5% or so to evaluate the new load. Otherwise you could go over the top with the new load.

Rock Island 5” barrel
6 X Herco 230 grain Ranier (small) 816.8 high es
6 X Herco 230 grain Ranier (large) 931.2 nice
6.5 X Unique 230 grain Ranier (small) 935.6 consistent bit fast
6.5 X Unique 230 grain Ranier (large) 1012 consistent & fast
5 X Red Dot 230 grain Ranier (small) 714 3”
5 X Red Dot 230 grain Ranier (small) 739 5”
5 X Red Dot 230 grain Ranier (large) 726 3”
5 X Red Dot 230 grain Ranier (large) 770 5”
6.5 X 231 185 grain Ranier (small) 692 3”
6.5 X 231 185 grain Ranier (small) 728 5”
6.5 X 231 185 grain FMJ WC (small) 753 3”
6.5 X 231 185 grain FMJ WC (small) 782 5”
6.5 X 231 185 grain FMJ WC (large) 822 3”
6.5 X 231 185 grain FMJ WC (large) 825 5’

5” Iver Johnson
6.5 X Tite Group 185 grain Ranier (small) 1019 consistent
6.5 X Tite Group 185 grain Ranier (large) 1055 consistent
6 X Herco 230 grain Ranier (small) 823.9 high es
6 X Herco 230 grain Ranier (large) 867.9 consistent
4.5 X Tite Group 230 grain Ranier (small) 869.8 ok
4.5 X Tite Group 230 grain Ranier (large) 884.2 consistent

Sig 5”
6 X Herco 230 grain Ranier (small) 695.8 ok
6 X Herco 230 grain Ranier (large) 848.4 consistent

Many years ago the 38 and 357 mag cases had large primers but someone realized that a small would work just fine. You will probably never encounter these cases but if you do make sure you reduce your load especially if it is a hot one. If powder is over ignited that could cause a dangerous pressure spike. That is why the flash holes are the size that they are. Starline makes 45 Colts cases especially for blanks and the heads are marked as such. Under no circumstances use them for smokeless powder ammo as that will almost certainly result in disaster. I have also seen 400 Cor Bon ammo with both size primers. Such situations are a pain in the keister. But the prudent reloader should be aware of this situation. At one time they made small primers for the 30-30 but they evidently didn’t work out well due to under ignition of the powder and were discontinued.


Iver Johnson 45 ACP

3 comments:

  1. Your blog contains good information.Thanks for sharing.With time and age the primers are constantly tried and enhanced. It is known that the CCI pistol primers are more sensitive. Before that application of the primers the adjustability and the compatibility level of the primers have been aptly judged and tested. To have the cleanest form of burning in most cases one might make use of the recent non-corrosive and non-mercuric initiator mixture.

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  2. Such a useful content. A really great source of information for me. May other's also get benefits from this.
    Pistol primers are indeed crucial aspects for consideration in case you have grabbed yourself a pistol. These particular primers are equally important like that of the rifle primers as well as magnum primers.

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  3. I read your whole content it’s really interesting and attracting for new reader.
    Thanks for sharing the information with us.

    Goex Black Powder
    Cci Primers
    7mm08
    38 Super
    Hornady Critical Defense

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To the Board of Directors,

Gentlemen I`am writing to present you with an idea that i think you may possibly find advantageous to your company. As i`am sure you are aware there is a great interest in whats called "Cowboy Action" shooting in this country and more and more guns of yesteryear are being resurected by the companies that make reproduction firearms.
The sport is growing constantly and the gun makers are constantly looking for ways to take even more advantage of this ever growing market. Guns like the Henry rifle,Spencer carbine, Colt and Remington conversion revolvers and the Colt 1872 Open Top and others are on the market and doudtless other guns of history will be made in the future.
The arms makers try to be as authenic as possible in their copies but one thing keeps them from being "true" copies.The majority of these guns are being made in calibers that the original guns were never made in.The Henry, Spencer,the majority of early Colts were made in rimfire calibers. Ammunition that has`nt been made by American companies since the 1920`s and early 30`s.But with the resurgence in interest in the old guns of our history and boost in ammo sales that go along with it i think it is time to resurect the original ammo these guns used as well. I ask you to think about it and concider this.
The new guns are generally offered in 2 and sometimes 3 caliber options, none of which were ever used in the originals to begin with. If the original rimfire calibers were offered as an addtional caliber option and the ammo for those calibers were available i believe both the guns and ammo sales would skyrocket.
Authenticity is what it is all about with the cowboy action crowd and the collectors and other shooters of these guns.What could be more "authenic" that having a repro in it`s original
chambering rather than a caliber that never was used in the original? Not to mention the fact that if ammo were available once again people that own originals like myself would love to be able to shoot them as well.
i believe that if arrangements could be reached between the gun makers and your company in that they would make the guns with their original calibers as options and you in turn make the ammo available i think it would be a boost in sales for both. I ask both of you to do this.
The gun makers offer the guns in their original calibers as a limited trial. You in turn make a limited run of the ammo. you both market the availablity of guns and ammo and see how it works. I believe you will find a gold mine has been discovered.
About 20 yrs ago i wrote a letter to your company asking that you concider making various rimfire ammo available again for people like myself who own antiques and would love to shoot them if ammo were available.My letter made it into the hands of someone { can`t recall who}
but he was a higher up in the company at the time.
He wrote me back saying he personally thought i had a good idea and he had presented my idea before the board and they turned it down saying they did`nt believe there was enouht of a market out there
Well things have changed quite a lot since then and i think that my idea might be worth concideration once again. I hope you agree as well.

Sincerely,
Robert Heins